Are you going into Politics then?

What would you call a female Taoiseach?

Feck the Taoiseach’s role - I wanna be the next President! 2011 Elections, here I come!

You will never change!

Go to the top, forget the middle bit!

I wonder who taught you?

Hell, there’s 92 Rooms in Ã?ras an Uachtaráin - I’m sure there would be a spare one or two for you…

Well you saw my rants on http://twitter.com/conoro

From now on my address will have the GPS co-ordinates printed on it.

Our business New Irish PostCode is:

Cork N51733507,W8753877

My next batch of MOO cards will have it too.

Yeah yeah it’s long but it can be typed into a GPS unit by any postman, courier or Tesco van to give 100% delivery accuracy. House/Apartment number plus that code is all you need.

It’d be great if all the GPS manufacturers agreed on a TinyURL type system for the co-ordinates so that they were shortened to give Cork QW6Y5

If clueless newbie Ministers can be given the run-around by vested interests, then it’s time for us to help ourselves.

Hello there,
This is far away from my area of life but I don’t think that post codes are in An Post’s interest. At least, I wouldn’t feel they were if I were in charge of An Post. Currently, only An Post delivery people know where the houses are, and that means that there isn’t really any way for a potential competitor to appear. If they locations were codified, then the possibility of a rival being able to cherrypick the better delivery locations, leaving An Post in charge of the loss making country roads of the USO seems more rather than less likely.

I think Conor has a great idea going here, and he’s refined it more on Twitter over the day, to ‘tinyURL’ those long geo coords. That just shows what one entrepreneur can come up with in one day, if this were opened to the Irish tech community at large who knows what they can come up with.

@Simon - I see what you’re saying, but a few things come to mind -
1) the government could make a deal with An Post to not allow any new ‘basic’ postal carriers into the market for 5/10 years as an incentive to get An Post to support the new system;
2) An Post does face competition in the more lucrative end of the market every day - the courier/parcel delivery service. I’d have to assume that this is where they make their real money and I’d also bet that most people reading this have had issues with courier deliveries in the past. Most of the DHL etc will call to check I’m in the house and just where it is before delivering, and a lot of the websites will no longer use An Post Parcel Delivery due to the crap service they’ve received in the past.

While your average postperson knows where your house is as it’s on the usual route (and his letters are already sorted into numerical order for each estate / roadway) the parcel couriers make irregular deliveries to most non-workplaces, meaning it’s harder for them to ‘remember’ where each house is. Having post codes would make An Post’s own life much easier as a lot of the sorting can be mechanised (in the UK the majority of letters have the post code read off them by machines and are auto-sorted - even for handwritten addresses). More tech = more money saved = faster delivery times for all)

Elly, good to meet you the other night. Pardon my ignorance in this area, but what utility exactly would postcodes add?

We have an extremely fast postal system, with little lost mail. Check.
Our addresses are human readable. Check.
Our addresses can be remembered without need for notation. Check.
If people want to add their GPS co-ordinates, or any other necessary ‘directions’ to addresses, they are free to do so. True.
We have a reasonably cheap mail system, whose price has increased little in decades. True.
Competition doesn’t usually decrease costs in a mature fixed cost, subsidised system - e.g.: public transport. True.

Are address confusions a huge problem in business? They don’t seem to be an issue on the citizen / consumer end. The only convincing argument I’ve heard for postcodes is that it’s quickly possible to judge what electoral district is served by which elected official by postcode - but since constituency data is already held by the government, this is a closed public information problem (ditto An Post’s Geo Directory), rather than one necessitating post codes.

Fer feck’s sake indeed. All those lost couriers wasting petrol. Not very bleedin’ green is it!

Hi Gareth, just dug your comment out of the spam filter, not sure how it ended up there.

To address the main ‘flaw’ that I would see in your logic “We have an extremely fast postal system, with little lost mail. Check.” - Not true. The postal system in ireland is extremely slow when compared to the UK and France (both countries in which I have lived).

I’ve had more post go missing over the past 5 years living in ireland than I ever had. Post is also regularly mis-delivered to my house, instead of to the similarly delivered estate next door (and vice versa).

My mother-in-law’s postman took it upon himself to ‘return to sender’ an important letter that I was having delivered there, nearly causing me to not be able to get married.

Couriers regularly call me looking to find out where the house is - and I live in a medium-sized housing estate that’s been here on the outskirts of Dublin for 40 years.

Using PostCodes would allow couriers quickest routes from A to B to C to D to be plotted by machine in advance. Using postcodes would allow An Post to save money by using machines to read the addresses on the bulk of mail instead of human resources. It would cut out the need to write long addresses - I can send a letter to my mother using just her house number and postcode - and we’ve tested the system to check that it works!

Outside of the postal service, postcodes allow the fire brigade and ambulance to quickly pin point a house no matter where it is - imagine some of the rural farmers trying to describe how to get to their farm, trying up the emergency services phoneline when they could simply provide a quick postcode. They are also getting confused by the confused estate naming and numbering in the new massive estates that are being built. My Mum suffers from angina attacks and lives alone - when she has to call an ambulance during an attack, she wants to speak as little as possible and conserve her breath…

Review this wikipedia page on post codes - I’m no expert, but if the majority of 1st world countries have postcode systems, then surely they must have seen some value in introducing them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postcodes

I posted a GPS/Irish Grid Based Post Code system on the GPS Ireland website back in Jamuary 2007. See here ; http://www.gpsireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=79
Coversions to this Post Code system are now available using our new software - Hangle

Gary’s system would be better if it removed the quite staggering flaw it currently contains: if you can’t predict that a character in a certain position will be alphabetic or numeric, then there are some numbers and letters you can’t use in the scheme. 0,O,1,I,2,Z,B,8,5 and S should all be off-limits. There’s a debate to be had about G and 6, too.

In fact, at this point you’re better off removing the numbers altogether because otherwise any mistake in writing down a postcode will result in *another valid postcode* being written down instead. Worst. Outcome. Ever.

John,

valid points - all the usual confusable letters/numbers have already been removed and certain places in the string already can only have letters.
There comes a point with all Grids, Codes, Coordinates that if someone uses the wrong sets of characters then they will go to the wrong place !!! However - this system will be tested for real on a SatNav in the next few weeks and any tweeking that needs to be done will be undertaken - anyone that would like to see it in action just let me know.

“all the usual confusable letters/numbers have already been removed”

One of your own examples from the link you posted above is “N7K 5SZ5″.

5SZ5 ?? Seriously? Try again, colleague.

John, Gary - still fascinating points from both of you. I’d love to see something like this working in Ireland, would make so many people’s lives easier each day…

John,

I did say the usual ones i,o,O,L,U - there are many published examples of letters/numbers removed in coding as you suggested - but none yet go to the extremes that you mention. It is not that I disagree with you - there is a point however where you have to draw a line or use a different alphabet! Also it should be borne in mind that what I am proposing is not designed for Posting Letters - An Post will continue doing their own thing here - I am more concerned with SatNav and GIS - i.e moving vehicles around where the room for confusion will be far less that hand written addresses! I prefer to call these codes “Location” Codes! There will be field testing in late October/Early November so any major issues will be addressed then. The feedback is welcome…….Thanks - Gary

Just to keep you all up to date - our proposed Location (Post) Code system (slightly modified since and with a working Name of PONCode where PONC pronounced “PUNK” is the Irish word for point) will be available for trial on Garmin SatNav systems in March 2008. Commercial SatNav users are invited to trial it - contact me if you want a trial - see full details here -
http://www.gpsireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=79

Rgds,

Gary

Post Codes For Ireland (& Northern Ireland) - Available on Garmin SatNav’s from March 2008

GPS Ireland has developed a Post Code System for Ireland which will be available on Garmin SatNav Systems from March 2008. Users will be able to get their Post Code from a web Mapping service at GPS Ireland’s sister website http://www.irishpostcodes.ie at no cost from the end of March. This Post Code system is currently being tested by GPS Ireland on Garmin Nuvi 760’s and it is working exceptionally well.

This system is not aimed at delivering the mail, although it will support this as well;- it is designed to support the efficient navigation of vehicles on our roads. There were around 2.5 million vehicles registered in the Republic of Ireland last year alone and of these, approximately 20% were commercial vehicles, according to the Society of the Irish Motoring Industry’s (SIMI) statistical service. So in a country where the nature of destination or delivery addresses causes constant confusion and is constantly being changed or added to, it is clear from the pure volume of vehicles on our roads that they need much more urgent assistance in finding their destinations than locally based Post Men!!! There has been much talk about a Government backed Post Code System for more than 3 years now but this system lost its impetus due to its focus on delivering mail. An Post does not want or need a Post Code system, but the system we have developed can be used by them and any new Postal service after deregulation, if they wish.

The GPS Ireland PON (Position Orientated Navigation) Code will immediately allow courier services, which currently decline private address pick ups, to double their business with the confidence needed to find their new customers. Not only this, but the system will also reduce normal time and mileage costs by up to 15% immediately by allowing them to find and route to their commercial customers more efficiently. The PON Codes used in conjunction with SatNav’s will support route optimisation;- heretofore expensive and difficult to use because of poorly defined addresses. Route optimisation is now available on Garmin Nuvi 760 SatNav’s.

The need for a Post Code system in Ireland has been well debated and it is now universally recognised as an urgent requirement. Reference to a doctor service lost and trying to find a patient’s house in a rural area at 4 am on a wet winter’s morning and unable to knock at anyone’s door for directions, is enough to re-enforce the argument! Using a SatNav alone is not a solution to the problem as address spelling, non precise townland addresses and addresses that can be in either the Irish or English language can cause constant problems. This is a navigation problem which needs a navigation solution…i.e. a Post Code system which is based on a geographic reference.

Recent Press reports (25th Feb 2008) indicate that the Government’s proposal for discussion in the Dáil later in 2008 is not geographically based and, therefore, will represent significant costs and lead times to implement. GPS Ireland’s system is geographically based and is already implemented for testing by Garmin for their Nuvi 700 series of SatNav’s.

The benefits of the GPS Ireland System over any other existing or planned system are as follows:

· Because the system is geographically based, users can get their PON Code from a free web mapping site without waiting for the Government to allocate it to them.

· Because it is based on a version of the modern Irish Grid reference system, it will not require an expensive memory and processor speed demanding database to use it on SatNav’s or mobile phones with integrated GPS.

· No SatNav manufacturer has as of yet implemented mapping owned by the Irish Government on their systems because of cost to purchase and cost to update. For the same reasons, it is therefore not guaranteed that they will be able to afford to purchase rights to a Government backed Post Code system either. Any system which requires a database containing every property in the country would be expensive to use and expensive to keep up to date. Then we would have an expensive Post Code system that no vehicle could have the benefit of using. In that case, approximately 0.5 million commercial vehicles who register in Ireland annually would remain unable to take the benefit of our Government implemented Post Code system! In the end it may only be suitable for Postal Sorting offices and direct marketing companies with large computers and big database maintenance budgets!

· The GPS Ireland system does not require a database, so no fear of it being out of date or expensive to maintain.

· Under the GPS Ireland system, there will be no special treatment for any property in any location i.e. no “D4� related systems – just a derivative of Irish grid which exists already underneath every millimetre of ground in both the Republic and Northern Ireland. Our system does however, support the continued use of existing systems in combination; if the user requires.

· Unlike the Government system mentioned in the press recently, which seemed to suggest that there were only 999 properties in Dublin 4 (D04 123) and all of the county of Galway (GAL 123), the GPS Ireland system has no limit to the number of property Post Codes and would never have to be redesigned to accommodate new properties.

· No one would have to wait for the Government to allocate them a Post Code, it exists already, just get it from a free web map service.

· GPS Ireland’s system would not be limited to permanent structures either; even temporary structures like construction site offices, new houses and mobile homes can have an immediate post code. Every Trade Stand at the National Ploughing Championships, the largest outdoor trade show in Europe, can have a Post Code which would be impossible under the suggested Government system.

· Even “non-structuresâ€? such as delivery entrances, escape routes, junctions, road works, accident sites, Garda Ramps, Speed Cameras, bus stops, taxi ranks, car parks, SOS phones, sport & other event sites, circus tents, mobile libraries, mobile breast check and blood donor clinics, cruise liners in port, race start/finishes etc;- all of these too can have a Post Code and none would have to wait to get it!….. just go to http://www.irishpostcodes.ie, when live at the end of March, and get it for free by clicking on a map or entering coordinates from a SatNav or GPS!

· With an increasing number of vehicles, both private and commercial crossing the border every day, why have two separate Post Code Systems on the Island? Both parts of the Island use the same grid reference system so both can easily use the new GPS Ireland Post Code system straight away – vehicles travelling north or south would not have to switch between two different addressing systems.

· GPS Ireland’s system allows for individual floors in the same building to have a unique code – easier for despatch riders and delivery services.

The GPS Ireland system is a 7 character alphanumeric code which is easily remembered. The PON Code for GPS Ireland’s offices in Crosshaven, Cork is

“WVR-J3DQ� which, when punched into a SatNav system, will take the user to our car park! Other elements are optionally added to assist visual identification but are not absolutely required. A detailed explanation of the code is contained on our website:

http://www.gpsireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=79

We already have this system working on a Garmin Nuvi 760 SatNav shown in the images on our website also.

Enter the 7 character code – view the location on the map to confirm no major errors have been made and select “Go� to be voice guided to it!!!

The GPS Ireland PON Code system is suitable for:

· Courier Services and Despatch Riders

· Food Delivery Services

· Mail Collection & Delivery Services

· Construction Vehicles

· Car Hire Companies

· Shop Delivery Services

· Home Furnishing & White Good Delivery Services

· Service Companies

· Street Furniture & Road Sign Maintenance Companies

· Mobile Sales Forces

· Hackney, Taxi & Transport Companies

· Emergency Services;- Fire, Ambulance, Doctor, Police

· Civil Defence, Order Of Malta, St John’s Ambulance etc

· Utility maintenance field crews

· Buy & Sell Services

· Private Drivers commuting or finding weddings, functions and funerals.

· Tourists and Tourist services

· The Hospitality Industry; Hotels, Guest Houses, Attractions

· Banks, ATM’s Pharmacies, Petrol Stations, Community services

· Billboard Advertising Companies

There is no-one living in or visiting Ireland who will not benefit from this new system.

It is even suitable for entry into web address forms on Yahoo, Google, MSN, E-Bay etc who ask for a Post Code;- solving the well known problem persons living in Ireland have when purchasing goods over the web.

Because of its nature the GPS Ireland PON Code can be easily transmitted over a mobile phone by voice or text message and by any other communications system where clarity and brevity is required. For this reason field repair crews in the Electricity, Gas, Water and Telecoms industries will find it exceptionally valuable. And the code itself defines a position to within 5 meters of its equivalent Irish Transverse Mercator Grid coordinates.

Some examples of the PON Codes for notable sites around Ireland are as follows:

Location
PON Code
MapQuest Web Map

Athlone Institute Of Technology Main Campus
L7K TQ91
Athlone Institute Of Technology Main Campus

Ballyhack Castle
QSA X7Q2
Ballyhack Castle

Bunratty Castle
PMR R42H
Bunratty Castle

Civil Defence Training School Roscrea
QBX D1WT
Civil Defence Training School Roscrea

Cobh Heritage Centre
WVS G5N0
Cobh Heritage Centre

Derry Airport
CPE PCP3
Derry Airport

Dublin Airport
MCM MAJE
Dublin Airport

Entrance To Lough Key Forest Park
FV7 X4Q9
Entrance To Lough Key Forest Park

Eyre Square Galway
KGF XJH1
Eyre Square Galway

Government Buildings Dublin
MCH FWK1
Government Buildings Dublin

GPO Dublin
MCJ 955P
GPO Dublin

K Club
LXG PR53
K Club

Kilkenny Tourist Office
QNQ Z2JQ
Kilkenny Tourist Office

Muckross Park Hotel Kilarney
TYW GSZA
Muckross Park Hotel Kilarney

National Maritime College Cork
WVR ESH3
National Maritime College Cork

Pairc Esler Newry
H9F 6FTE
Pairc Esler Newry

Pier Road Inniscrone
FGG JXND
Pier Road Inniscrone

Rathmullan Pier Lough Swilly
CGG W7R6
Rathmullan Pier Lough Swilly

RDS Dublin
MDH 3HWT
RDS Dublin

Rock Of Cashel
Q8K HS8K
Rock Of Cashel

Royal Cork Yacht Club Crosshaven
WVR E652
Royal Cork Yacht Club Crosshaven

The Spire Dublin
MCJ 86XF
The Spire Dublin

Waterford County Council Dungarvan
XFX RSQ7
Waterford County Council Dungarvan

Wexford County Council
R6E CH9W
Wexford County Council

The GPS Ireland PON (Post) Code system will be available for test on Garmin Nuvi 760 SatNav’s by commercial organisation over the next few weeks (March 2008) and at the same time a free web map service to capture Post Codes at no cost will also go live. This will be available at http://www.irishpostcodes.ie

If you require any further information or to set up a trial on a Garmin Nuvi SatNav, please E-mail gary@gpsireland.ie or Tel: 021 4832990

[...] Regardless of how GPS Ireland decide to address (’scuse the pun) the issue of post codes in Ireland is one that is hotly debated - see the discussion here on ellybabes blog. [...]

Gary,

Nice system, but please use numeric codes only. Let us not go down the old road of the three pin plug and right hand drive. Instead let us be in step with the big wide world. USA, Russia, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland all use numeric post codes, have two pin plugs and left hand drive. We lost out on the 2 pin plugs and LHD, but it is not too late fot a propper zip code.

For several weeks now I have been asking Ticode directly for their comments on the interesting article below - but my e-mails have just been coming back …..

The following article was passed during a recent visit to Geneva - have read for yourself -

TiCode – the Posting Code that Moves the Address as well as the Mail!…………..

Ticode is a worrying concept as it causes place names in Ireland and Northern Ireland to move?

If you type the following Ticodes in at http://www.ticode.ie/searchmain.aspx (Type in the words in capitals below or just cut and paste)

You will Find that:
Ticode: TALLAGHT - is now in the sea west of Kerry
Ticode: TRALEE – is now in Bantry Bay
Ticode: NENAGH – is now in Limerick
Ticode: KERRY – is now in Kildare
Ticode: DERRY – has been moved into the Republic and planted near Drumlish in Co. Longford.
And finally, the people who live near Drummin in Co. Mayo are now known by their Ticode: “ ALL GREY � .

If there is any doubt as to where Ireland’s newest airport will be, then the Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, will be happy to know that it will be in his constituency; - in a field just to the North East of Birr and its Ticode will be “ JETAWAY � - type it in here to see it on the map: http://www.ticode.ie/searchmain.aspx
You have to feel sorry for the lads in “ NEUTERD � but I suppose they are not as bad off as those in “ EUN0CH “

It looks like you can have all letters and as many and as little as 1 character in the so called alphanumeric Ticode which allows you to spell as many real words or phrases as you want! Think of your own and have a try!

It would all be very amusing really except for the fact that the Ticode website proclaims: “We have developed a new national location code based on best practice from around the world�;- unfortunately giving the impression that they are really serious!

If the Ticode is “best practice�, then it is a matter for serious concern;- not only because of the moving place names above, but also because the owner of the Bulk Mail company Tico who also owns the Ticode website “is currently a member of the Irish government’s Postcode Management Board�;- and has presumably been advising the Irish Government on what Posting Code system we should have - see here for details: http://www.tico-group.ie/team_1.asp and here: http://www.dcmnr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/National+Postcode+Project+Boards+Convenes.htm

If the Ticode is to be taken seriously, then you better order the removals van as your address might be on the move….. Tico are trying to give us a Posting Code that moves the Address as well as the Mail!

PON Codes ( PONC ) were designed so that none of the problems being experienced by the code mentioned can ever occur - best practice would insist on that - see http://www.irishpostcodes.ie